tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post4412030853163541366..comments2024-02-16T08:32:46.618+00:00Comments on Donald Clark Plan B: NLP: scientific paper suggests it’s a “pseudoscience” that should be “mothballed”Donald Clarkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00796341486328270474noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-490521632225969172020-12-31T05:23:45.801+00:002020-12-31T05:23:45.801+00:00Thank you so much for this nice information. Hope ...Thank you so much for this nice information. Hope so many people will get aware of this and useful as well. And please keep update like this.<br /><br /><a href="https://www.tex-ai.com" rel="nofollow">Text Analytics Software</a><br /><br /><a href="https://www.tex-ai.com/text-analytics/" rel="nofollow">Text Analytics Tool</a><br /><br /><a href="https://www.tex-ai.com/text-extraction/" rel="nofollow">Text Extraction Tool</a><br /><br /><a href="https://www.tex-ai.com/text-classification/" rel="nofollow">Text Classification Tool</a><br /><br /><a href="https://www.tex-ai.com/text-summarization/" rel="nofollow">Text Summarization Tool</a>Charleshttps://www.tex-ai.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-74937043434138023492018-01-07T07:26:09.267+00:002018-01-07T07:26:09.267+00:00The same people like you call Buddhism a pseudo re...The same people like you call Buddhism a pseudo religion...or the Jungian would throw his feces towards the Freudian....blah blah blah <br />Your long drivel, could have just said; "NLP sucks" same result - so some dumb ass takes your word for it some won't... Ancient Wisdom Publicationshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13314284726059985549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-62023970504580480902015-07-13T16:40:49.541+00:002015-07-13T16:40:49.541+00:00You have a very strange sense of humour. ;)
You have a very strange sense of humour. ;)<br />Donald Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00796341486328270474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-1692213971096197002015-07-13T16:39:20.980+00:002015-07-13T16:39:20.980+00:00This is funny for two main reasons.. one, Donald&#...This is funny for two main reasons.. one, Donald's outright bias against NLP is blatant. Second, those who actually uphold most psychotherapy as "scientific". Really? With questionable studies and the use of the DSM (THE most subjective book of criteria on the planet), not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people who get NO benefit from standard psychotherapy.. nice black kettle calling the cauldron black. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-54236599133173332702013-09-08T08:52:55.608+00:002013-09-08T08:52:55.608+00:00Hi Dave
You get ad hominem with Witkowski for cher...Hi Dave<br />You get ad hominem with Witkowski for cherry picking then do exactly the same thing yourself. Disclosure: "psychotherapist" you may be, that doesn't give you the right to be so primitively dismissive. In fact, it would rule you out in the minds of many serious psychologists and scientists (bias). I have written many pieces about NLP over many years quoting dozens of papers. What is astounding about the Sturt papaer is teh fact that NLP is unsupported by any robust evidence. Are you telling me that you and thousands of other so called self-pronounced and certificated practitioners are using a technique that in your own quoted paper says "There is little evidence that NLP interventions improve health-related outcomes". I wouldn't be disclosing his if I were you.<br />Read the Sturt paper again. It was written to STOP people ike you getting paid by the NHS to use NLP. "insufficient evidence to justify the amount of money spent on NLP by the NHs".Donald Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00796341486328270474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-78378403810299917682013-09-07T21:37:43.361+00:002013-09-07T21:37:43.361+00:00Witkowski is a highly-criticised pseudoskeptic who...Witkowski is a highly-criticised pseudoskeptic who copied Sharpley's irrelevant paper word for word and got his copy published in low quality journal.<br /><br />That pseudoskeptics keep banging on about it merely shows that it's all about pseudoskepticism and not science.<br /><br />The only recent meta-analysis on NLP in a reputable journal is Sturt et al 2012.<br /><br />http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?as_ylo=2009&q=neurolinguistic+programming&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5<br /><br />Sturt et al says "There is little evidence that NLP interventions improve health-related outcomes. <b>This conclusion reflects the limited quantity and quality of NLP research, rather than robust evidence of no effect</b>."<br /><br />ie the research sucks and no conclusion about NLP can be drawn. Sorry pseudoskeptics, but that's the scientific position.<br /><br />Disclosure: I'm a psychotherapist using several treatment modalities including NLP.<br />Dave Gouldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13609942609008559664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-17823321387547352402013-05-01T12:54:28.894+00:002013-05-01T12:54:28.894+00:00There is a good review of Witkowski (2010) in &quo...There is a good review of Witkowski (2010) in "Research and the history of methodological flaws" Gray et al in "The clinical effectiveness of Neurolinguistic Programming. A critical appraisal" (Wake et al 2013 Routledge 202-207)The authors point to Witkowski's comment about the force of the argument lying in weight and not in numbers as being highly relevant. The authors point to the credibility of the methodology of reviewing, however pointing out as indeed Einspruch, Eric L. & Forman, Bruce D. (1985) did, that the papers left from the sifting themselves had methodological problems. Thank you for an interesting discussion.Dr Bruce Grimleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05245944668462873288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-22159298629616903072013-03-12T18:26:11.162+00:002013-03-12T18:26:11.162+00:00Anonymous - why is it always anonymous? Why bother...Anonymous - why is it always anonymous? Why bother posting this. Why not contribute to the debate and arguments?Donald Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00796341486328270474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-46048047274064564342013-03-12T12:30:28.855+00:002013-03-12T12:30:28.855+00:00This article (any select comments) is a dissertati...This article (any select comments) is a dissertation in the use of ad hominem and appeal to authority argument to discredit a unified collection of theories.<br /><br />My understanding is that NLP is a collection of various theories and tools that deserved to be analyzed and scrutinized on their own merit, irrespective of the personal credibility of Bandler or any of NLPs practitioners.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-88195383445858388322013-01-20T09:38:45.324+00:002013-01-20T09:38:45.324+00:00My belief is that both sides of the debate "I...My belief is that both sides of the debate "Is NLP pseudo-science?" are right, and wrong. On the one hand, so much of what passes for NLP theory or training is either made-up, self-serving, sensationalistic, anti-scientific, narcissistic, or all of the above.<br /><br />On the other hand, there does exist, under the rubric of NLP, a handful of interesting observations of human behavior which have been partially modeled and systematized by some people -- quite successfully -- for their own ends. Some of these observations come from mainstream psychology and neuroscience, and hence are accepted in other fields. Others, so far as I know, have yet to be examined in a truly rigorous scientific context, probably because of the stigma of the “NLP” and “pseudo-science” labels.<br /><br />This is a shame, because as some of the previous commenters have mentioned, no matter what conclusions may be reached from a review study of previous empirical research into the claims of NLP, there is indeed a population of people who have been trained in NLP techniques and who have found efficacy, either in professional or therapeutic contexts, in some of its techniques.<br /><br />In short, there is some smoke there, which some individuals manage to convert into fire.<br /><br />I say this as a self-taught novice who has never paid anything to anyone for NLP training, nor do I have any need or desire to market myself as any sort of NLP practitioner. Nonetheless, I have read many of the standard books and listened to hundreds of hours of the classic lectures, and I can say that for me, while probably 90% of what I read or heard was nonsense to me, the remaining 10% was not only useful, but frequently transformative to my life.<br /><br />Perhaps someday one of those successful NLP practitioners will inspire a university team to investigate a small subset of NLP which seems to have practical, repeatable application. That might give us some truly interesting insights. Sadly, I suspect most of those folks are currently making too much money to bother. ;-)<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04283666627340868111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-83956028948680151722013-01-04T10:43:38.982+00:002013-01-04T10:43:38.982+00:00So many psychological techniques pass muster. How...So many psychological techniques pass muster. How come neuro-linguistic progamming fails? How come people keep trying to deny that by dissing psychology?<br /><br />Because its a pseudo-scientific cult. People say much the same thing about dianetics and urine drinking. <br /><br />Master practitioners of dianetics, urine drinking and neuro-linguistic programming; pretty much the same bag! There's always a so called genius at the top somewhere receiving adulation and cash for their "creations".<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-27970689955091253872012-05-08T02:20:24.878+00:002012-05-08T02:20:24.878+00:00Hello everybody.
I find this article interesting f...Hello everybody.<br />I find this article interesting for few reasons. Firstly I'm an NLP master practitioner and secondly because I'm originally from Poland, where mr. Witkowski is from.<br />Me. Witkowski looks at NLP as an approach in psychotherapy, but NLP is not about psychotherapy and it's not about business or anything else. NLP is about modeling of human excellence. Few years ago my grandmother told me that her writing skills were worse than her husband and my grandfathers. She decided to look, examine, and copy the way he wrote.<br />She in a way wanted to acquire his skill in writing. She told me that her writing improved significantly and she was gives better job offers.<br />Was my grandmother did was NLP par excellence, just applied writing.<br /><br />It is very difficult to evaluate NLP from the perspective of main stream psychology. It just does not work. You need to do and know NLP to disagree with it. Because there are disagreements within the field.<br />Churchill said that "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." And here mr. Witkowski is applying democracy to psychological research.<br />NLP training can vary like any other class or lesson. I did not like my intro to Psychology class last semester. Does that mean that the whole field is wrong?<br /><br />And most research that mr. Witkowski has evaluated was on preferred representational system. But both co-founders retracted that there is a preferred rep system.<br />John Grinder: www.inspiritive.com.au/grinterv.htm<br /><br />Also I want to point out that Bandler and Grinder are geniuses. They may not be geniuses like Soul Kripke, who mastered Shakespeare by the age of 12 (although I can't be sure), rather well rounded geniuses grounded both in philosophy and sciences.<br />I've meet dr. Bandler and he seems to be a very reliable person.<br />I believe NLP is a genius achievement for humanity. Some models may be outdated, something may be wrong, but NLP as a whole amazing.<br />regardsMaxhttp://maxjackl.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-44508634032307700752012-04-21T12:12:49.977+00:002012-04-21T12:12:49.977+00:00Just been on an NLP course this week.
Worse cours...Just been on an NLP course this week.<br /><br />Worse course I have ever been on. (The trainers happened to be good at delivery btw)<br /><br />I found the material to be baseless and weird beyond belief. If it was questioned people where told to open thier minds. Do me a favour please!<br /> <br />It was the most uncomfortable subject matter I have ever been exposed to. <br /><br />The material and messages are the stuff of religious fanatics without the religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-5606360183615149462011-10-12T20:21:03.874+00:002011-10-12T20:21:03.874+00:00Interesting article Donald, and I profess to being...Interesting article Donald, and I profess to being one of those who hasn't studied the archive.... however, as an NLP practitioner, I would absolutely welcome further studies being done in the field. I have heard Bandler rabbiting on about how scientific study is irrelevant and how you can't prove that NLP works (when I heard him he was talking about education).... however I am absolutely convinced of it's efficacy in many fields - we use techniques from it the whole time in our role as parents, my husband uses it to great effect as a nurse, and it is extremely useful in my role as a business consultant. For sure, much of it is "just" communication skills - but many of us do not innately have those skills, and I would love to see more double blind studies being done to put this one to rest once and for all. As you infer, many of the so-called studies have been ill designed or not taken up by the respected press (or both).... what is needed is more proper study of this area... something which many among the NLP fraternity would welcome.Fiona @nlpmumhttp://www.nlpmum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-1925146066270772722011-10-12T20:20:28.131+00:002011-10-12T20:20:28.131+00:00Interesting article Donald, and I profess to being...Interesting article Donald, and I profess to being one of those who hasn't studied the archive.... however, as an NLP practitioner, I would absolutely welcome further studies being done in the field. I have heard Bandler rabbiting on about how scientific study is irrelevant and how you can't prove that NLP works (when I heard him he was talking about education).... however I am absolutely convinced of it's efficacy in many fields - we use techniques from it the whole time in our role as parents, my husband uses it to great effect as a nurse, and it is extremely useful in my role as a business consultant. For sure, much of it is "just" communication skills - but many of us do not innately have those skills, and I would love to see more double blind studies being done to put this one to rest once and for all. As you infer, many of the so-called studies have been ill designed or not taken up by the respected press (or both).... what is needed is more proper study of this area... something which many among the NLP fraternity would welcome.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-39275110163272152602011-07-11T12:54:37.560+00:002011-07-11T12:54:37.560+00:00Thank you Donald, for highlighting the pseudoscien...Thank you Donald, for highlighting the pseudoscience elements of NLP. I found the comments fascinating. I often read about how NLP is "tosh" " bunkum" a "con" etc, and have read several papers that have shown such findings from their research. I am UKCP accredited psychotherpsist and work in a full time post, providing psychologial therapy to individuals. I have been using many elements of NLP theory and practice in my work and have had the highest level of user feedback, when compared to others in the team that do not use NLP. Of course, if NLP is pseudoscience, then should I stop using it in my practice? I need to explore further but thanks for bringing this to my attentionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-85976943944317520492011-07-02T11:51:53.700+00:002011-07-02T11:51:53.700+00:00You may be a 'master' of NLP, but you need...You may be a 'master' of NLP, but you need to reflect a little on your use of similes 'Pavlov' was a scientist and his experiments with salivating dogs laid the foundations for modern psychological research, which dismisses your 'mastery' as 'quackery'. When Pavlov measured his dogs' responses he did so using the scientific method, not by anecdote. If NLP helps one "communicate with more precision and effectiveness", then you need to go back to the 'toolbox'.Donald Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00796341486328270474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-26983095167267357282011-06-30T15:58:42.726+00:002011-06-30T15:58:42.726+00:00I am a "master" practitioner of NLP. I s...I am a "master" practitioner of NLP. I studied and trained with John Grinder and Richard Bandler as well as many other trainers in the field. To say that NLP cannot be confirmed by science is like saying that Pavlov's dogs didn't salivate. There are many people that say they are practitioners of NLP but have had very little training and don't understand that it is a tool-box of techniques that help people learn and communicate with more precision and effectiveness. I believe NLP is an art and not a science. When behavioral therapists embrace these and similar techniques they call it cognitive therapy.Stephen Dymhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04297111089740788659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-90381559869141789892011-06-10T01:49:23.874+00:002011-06-10T01:49:23.874+00:00Most people take all info/stats at face value and ...Most people take all info/stats at face value and If you actually read the article his technique for deriving his conclusions are quite ignorant as they are based on whether the articles appeared in a science master journal in a library in Philadelphia, go figure, some people are just out to make a name for themselves and his credentials as a psychologist/scientist seem very vague.blokehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03994558108724017562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-88093352703078526152011-02-18T21:04:25.467+00:002011-02-18T21:04:25.467+00:00Very interesting article. I am an NLP practitione...Very interesting article. I am an NLP practitioner, convinced that it did deliver results. Since I have been reviewing the evidence and it's clear it's bogus. Hard for me to admit several hundred pounds and a year down the line. Good article. Long live evidence based trainingAndy Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12119010379344863939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-42118935955832426962011-02-09T08:43:47.975+00:002011-02-09T08:43:47.975+00:00As an NLP Master Practitioner I found this article...As an NLP Master Practitioner I found this article very interesting. Reference the lack of scientific evidence I get that, but believe that you have to practice it to understand how powerful it can be and the impact that it can have. The challenge (in my view) is that there are some NLP'ers out there that give NLP a bad name; are very 'cult' like about it and/or not very good at practising it! I take bits and pieces that work for me and my clients, mix them up with other models, and never mention NLP unless someone asks!Bolthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10289963569437377844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-71434962837885226932010-12-14T10:06:16.278+00:002010-12-14T10:06:16.278+00:00I'll bet that most practitioners never even kn...I'll bet that most practitioners never even knew of such an archive. <br />I see that you've been censured for allegedly slandering some fellow named AndyB, NLP practitioner/scientologist. A funny yet predictable reaction from a religious fundamentalist: enlisting the aid of "god the moderator" in a dispute among men.Marshallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-66140806096575789022010-12-08T11:37:56.161+00:002010-12-08T11:37:56.161+00:00I have been taught elements of NLP many times on s...I have been taught elements of NLP many times on sales training courses and it was always very poor in its detail. I always viewed it as "no more than good inter personal and conversational skills". Learning how to talk and interact with people is a life skill, suggesting you can do more through some of this NLP junk is just OTT. Nice to know that we can resoundly state it is not worth studying as it has no proven merit!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-79202350271294757902010-11-25T06:32:58.854+00:002010-11-25T06:32:58.854+00:00I second Amy's thank you! I'm a young trai...I second Amy's thank you! I'm a young trainer, academic and a skeptic of NLP. I always aligned it with other mumbo-jumbo pseudosciences. I will show your blog post next time it is hinted that my skills and qualifications are lacking because I do not have NLP training.<br /><br />Keep up the great work - love your postings.KMBurowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17501232032100843511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21077063.post-18002290463978968332010-11-23T20:15:55.676+00:002010-11-23T20:15:55.676+00:00Thank you for this. I'm a first year Speech an...Thank you for this. I'm a first year Speech and Language Therapy student, and I'm being taught this by a lecturer who seems to be into any woo going. I thought it was rubbish but it's nice to have some confirmation!Amynoreply@blogger.com