Wednesday, February 16, 2011

Latin: makes learning a new language MORE difficult!!

In an odd article, in the Spectator, Toby Young, who seems obsessed with Latin, recommends it as a compulsory subject in state schools, with a string of ridiculous anecdotes. He describes how a friend used Latin on an easyjet flight to communicate with others on the plane. “If I’m on an EasyJet flight with a group of European nationals, none of whom speak English, I find we can communicate if we speak to each other in Latin,” says Grace Moody-Stuart. (I’m checking the passenger list next time I fly easyjet, just in case there’s a chance that awful Grace sits next to me!) Young even claims, with no evidence whatsoever, that Latin would help inner-city kids speak better as they’d practice unusual word endings!

He does, however, produce one piece of academic evidence, which he claims gives us “chapter and verse” on the subject, a 40 year old study by from the journal Phi Delta Kappan, where a group taught Latin was compared to another similar group and positive effects found.

Latin is not the cause

Of course, he simply trawled back through the literature to cherry pick a study that fitted his case, ignoring the more recent, superior, work In Search of the Benefits of Latin by Haas and Stern (2003) in the Journal of Educational Psychology.

In a review of the literature they found that Thorndike “did not find any differences in science and maths in students who learned Latin at school and those who did not”. And in the Haag and Stern (2000) follow up study to the study quoted by Young, two groups of comparable students, where one studied Latin, the other English, were assessed after two years, “No differences were found in either verbal or non-verbal IQ or grades in German or Maths”. In general they found an absence of transfer effects of learning Latin in reasoning. This had been predicted by Thorndike decades before, namely that transfer needs common ground in the source and target.

Now for the bad news: Latin makes it worse

The problem with understanding Latin is that you need to pay close attention to word endings; case markers on nouns and time markers on verbs. But in English and Romance languages word order and prepositions are more important. Endings play a minor role.

What Haag and Stern found, predictably, was that students who had learned one Romance language first found it easier to learn another Romance language , that those who had learned Latin. But it gets worse, as Latin caused incorrect transfer, such as the omission of prepositions and auxiliary verbs in Romance languages. In other words, learning Latin was detrimental to the learning of the new language.

They took two groups of German students, one who studied French, the other Latin as their second language. Both groups were then given a course in Spanish and the results measured. When the results were analysed by a Spanish assessor (who didn’t know who had taken French or Latin) found no group differences in verbal intelligence.

However, the French students made significantly fewer grammatical errors than the Latin students. As predicted the Latin students wrongly transferred the rules of Latin to Spanish. For example “misconstructions in verbs emerged to be either highly reminiscent of or identical to Latin verbs”. The French group turned out to be much better prepared to cope with Spanish grammar. Psychologically the Latin students had suffered from negative transfer using false friends in their new language. The fact that the grammatical similarities between modern Romance languages are much greater than that between Latin and modern Romance languages, means that the defenders of Latin are flogging a dead horse.

Incidentally, if you’ve heard the argument that Latin helps medical students learn and understand the considerable amount of medical vocabulary that has to be learned in medical schools. This also turns out to be false as shown in Pampush and Petto (2010)

Conclusion

This is not an unimportant or esoteric debate. Our state education system is in danger of being hijacked by minor celebrities, wannabes and TV chefs. Much of the debate is purely anecdotal, and worse, the anecdotal memories of a small clique of inner-London types who want to impose their worries and idiosyncratic ideas on the rest of us. It is important to counter this nonsense with the real evidence. The plural of anecdote is NOT data.

8 Comments:

Blogger Kim Thomas said...

Have you thought of trying to submit something on these lines to one of the nationals? Because in my view you need someone to counter the stream of stuff we're getting at the moment about Latin, uniforms, rote-learning, sitting in rows etc.

9:15 AM  
Blogger Rob Spence said...

"The plural of anecdotes is NOT data." Yes, and not least because anecdotes is already the plural. I'm sure you are right - those who make these claims for Latin are barking up the wrong tree - or just barking. I'm sure Latin can be very enjoyable and enriching, but it isn't going to help very much with the learning of present-day languages. I had to get Latin O level to do a degree in English Literature, and it was marginally useful: I could spot some references, and understood some obscure rhetorical terms. And if I come across an unfamiliar word with Latin roots, I can usually have a decent stab at its meaning. But that's it.

9:29 AM  
Anonymous Richard Sandlar said...

Right it is not easy to any language, for do this you will have to give your precious time.

10:10 AM  
Blogger Donald Clark said...

Unfortunately, the editorial class is the same group of inner-London myopics that are hijacking the system at present. I'll be debating these issues live with Toby Young on 3rd March.

10:18 AM  
Anonymous Seb Schmoller said...

"I'll be debating these issues live with Toby Young on 3rd March."

Where and in what forum? Recorded?

Seb Schmoller

8:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I worked for IBM many years ago the top programmer in the company had a first in Classics. Latin had taught him to look at things logically. It's 46 years since I did my A levels in Spanish, French and Latin and I still find Latin incredibly useful.

5:24 PM  
Blogger Ken Westmoreland said...

I learned French and Spanish at school, learnt Portuguese, from that learnt some Italian, and have a passive understanding of Catalan, Galician, and Romanian - oh, and Latin too. After Spanish grammar, even such idiosyncracies of Portuguese grammar as the personal infinitive and future subjunctive aren't that daunting.

I have nothing at all against the teaching of ancient history, nor of ancient languages - the ancient can complement the modern. What I do object to is the way that they are put on a pedestal and revered as 'Classics'.

Indeed, if a knowledge of an ancient language is so important, then why does it need to be Latin or Greek? Why not Old Norse, to which English is far more closely related, and to which modern Icelandic is very similar?

You don't need to learn Latin to know about inflections or declensions and you don't need to learn another language to know about English grammar. We may no longer have a distinct subjunctive tense in English, but we can still say 'if I were to have'.

There is an international language based on Latin, Interlingua, which is more practical than Esperanto, which is mixed between Lation, Germanic and Slavonic languages. Unfortunately, it no longer has verb inflections, so 'io es' is literally 'I is' as per Ali G. That said, Grace Moody Stuart would fare better speaking Interlingua with Romanians than Latin, although I get by with them in a mix of French and Italian, and only if their English is limited.

9:00 PM  
Blogger Ecoblogger said...

For my part, I agree with the anonymous comment. I still find Latin helps me to break things down and more importantly, think about word meanings and roots in other romance languages. My other half has Afrikaans as her first language, and much of what she says in her mother tongue, I can understand from some latin word roots.

9:27 AM  

Post a Comment

<< Home